Been working on this for a few days. it needs some help, and a title. Does it work in three parts like this? Any help, suggestions, comments are appreciated! -kyle.

I.

my
father
floats
on the lake

a thousand mayflies surface around him,
pull their soft bodies
out of their shells
and take wing

above,
the thunderhead
builds


II.

my father
steps
into the stream
and finds
his footing

he studies
the surface
the current
the wind

and lays his line out,
flat


III.

my father drifts
down the river,
towards
the mouth,
brown with silt

slowly
like ancient sturgeon
above the mud

Kyle, this poem fills me with a mixture of ache and awe. Filled with beauty and dread. Wow.

For some reason, and I can't specifically tell you why, the word 'surface' doesn't seem quite right. (referring to the Mayfly stanza only)

I'm terrible at titles, but I don't like "ichthyology". It's a complex poem, but its structure is sparse and elegant. I'd go with a very simple title to match the tone of the poem. Even as simple as "father" or "father in the lake" (these aren't really suggestions, like I said, I suck at titles. But I do believe simple is best here.)

I'm astonished at this one.

Thanks kitty

I realized too that they are caddisflies, not mayflies, so I'll take another look at that whole stanza. Good advice on the title, I'll see what I can come up with

Thanks kitty

I realized too that they are caddisflies, not mayflies, so I'll take another look at that whole stanza. Good advice on the title, I'll see what I can come up with

P.S., I like the break into divisions I, II, III, very much like a triptych. Which seems appropriate on many levels here.

Gosh, Kyle... I love everything about your poem... including the form, and especially how elegantly visual it is. I agree with ET about the title, although I believe your poem is about fond memories, as well. Again, just a category to consider rather than an actual title.

After reading your last post, I had to giggle at your exacting specificity of teeny-tiny flies... how cool! I hope you don't mind.

no worries maryann, giggle away!

I.

my
father
floats
on the lake

a thousand caddisflies
break the surface,
pull their soft bodies
free of their pupal skins
and take wing

above,
the thunderhead
builds


II.

my father
steps
into the stream
and finds
his footing

he studies
the surface
the current
the wind

and lays
his line out,
flat


III.

my father drifts
down the river,
towards
the mouth,
brown with silt

slowly,
an ancient sturgeon
in the mud


****
still no title, but working on it.

Any thoughts on the end? Does the sturgeon bit work without the simile from before? I like the idea of the image just sitting there at the bottom, not specifically attached to my father, though implied....

i like the edit, it keeps the simple language of the original but clarifies a few points of contention. as for the title, i vote for the equally simple "father" or something of that sort. and i like the ending as well, it serves as a nice anchor for the rest of the poem but also adds another layer of thought...nicely done, i enjoyed this.

my only worry with calling it "father" is that i have a thousand of these poems in my future, and they could all perfectly be called "father"....

a new thought for part one:


I.

my
father
floats
on the lake

the caddisflies hatch
pull their soft bodies
free of their pupal skins
and take wing

above,
the thunderhead
builds

i see your point about the title

as for the new thought for part one: honestly, i like the second edit better; "hatch" just doesn't roll of the tongue as well as "break the surface," imho. plus i like the imagery of the latter phrase more than the former. just me being picky =)

Kyle, I like some of the revisions here, though I'm not really sure about the new section with the caddisflies. It seems sort of a lesson in biology - the first stanza (the first version), it was more remote, abstract, part of the happening, but not about them, not in particular. They're part of the background. Personally that's where I prefer them; words like 'pupal' threaten to pierce through the fragile skin of the water of this poem, which is beautiful and deep. Sigh - Hell if I know - I've had four sam adamses, so don't pay me much mind.

You have to title them something here for GP. But if you put them together, really, since you mplied a series, they could all fall under a section called 'father' with no individual titles.

Anyway I love it.

Edit: I second chris - 'hatch' is too busy for the poem, and draws (in my opinion) too much attention away from the what the poem is about.

heya kyle

really diggin' the poem! some real depth and such and all that good poem-ee stuff. (sorry not really one for the major-league wordsmithing right now)

I had a certain idea about what seems to be your most problematic delineation? I dunno, just noticed you've been working on "I" alot.

anywho what about something like this for an idea for you for stanza 2;

the caddisflies
break the surface
in a chaff .........
---------

the caddisflies
break the surface
in a chaff
free of their pupal skins / out of their shells
and take wing

above,
the thunderhead
builds

basically ridding yourself of the word "thousand"; which seems too mundane an expression of sheer numbers. I absolutely love "break the surface", it feels so right here, y'know?

like I said, you just seem to be struggling with that section, what with most of your updates including a revision of some kind to that stanza.... maybe this helps some.

nice stuff kyle, glad youre around

Thanks everyone! Some really great observations here, and I really appreciate the care everyone has taken in reading this!

I agree with what ElectricTiger is saying, that it's not about the stupid flies. But they are a major part of that moment for me, an inextricable piece of that image, those flies hatching on the surface.... So yes, Treagal, I do need to deal with them, but yes ET, I don't need to deal with them quite so specifically.

Again, I feel like I have a thousand of these poems - that I will be writing poems about my dad fishing for the rest of my life, so there's plenty of time for mayflies and caddisflies and leeches and nymphs and bait of all sorts in poems yet to come....

For now, I will keep plodding away at this!

Extremely worthwhile plodding...

Early-on I meant to mention "reflection" or "reflections," which for me was the most delicate essence I felt as I logged off last time.

I've never written of my father, even in a metaphoric sense... perhaps because one feels compelled to "get it right." You are getting there...

don't laugh, maryanns, but I'm changing the name of the flies again.... They're still caddis flies, but we called them sedge-flies when i was a kid. I just asumed we made that up, or were wrong about it, but apparently that's what some people call a caddis fly. I think it sounds better.

Here's another version of part one....

I.

my
father
floats
on the lake

the sedge-flies
surface,
unfold
and take wing

above,
the thunderhead
builds

Hey, they are your flies... the wonderful freedom of being (a writer).

You're gonna hate me, but... if you wrote

thunderheads
build

it adds a bit of ominousness - however, you may not mean to intrude on the delicacy of the fishing line on the surface?

Sorry, that may be one too many cooks in the kitchen -or- as you mentioned before, another one of many poems about your father.

I am so happy you are deep into this!

kylebank wrote:

don't laugh, maryanns, but I'm changing the name of the flies again.... They're still caddis flies, but we called them sedge-flies when i was a kid. I just asumed we made that up, or were wrong about it, but apparently that's what some people call a caddis fly. I think it sounds better. Here's another version of part one.... I. my father floats on the lake the sedge-flies surface, unfold and take wing above, the thunderhead builds

Kyle, I like this revision. Sedge-fly is better; it has a colloquial sensibility that seems truer to the (memory) poem, and it also flows nicely with the words. [ I'm not sure about (the) in front of sedge-flies, however. ] But, I think 'the thunderhead' is appropriate. To my reading, 'the' gives the thunderhead a definite, particular presence - it is the thunderhead in the memory, almost personified, almost as a thing of fate, immovable and unchangeable from the memory / musing / symbolism that the poem
presumably draws from.

my
father
floats
on the lake

sedge-flies
surface
unfold
take wing

above,
the thunderhead
builds.

I'm just thinking out loud. Whatever you do with it, it's going to be gorgeous and amazing.

One final thought - since each stanza begins with 'my father' (which, by the way, I think works beautifully for you) if the line breaks should be specially considered around that. In particular, I might consider 'disconnecting' father from 'drifts'.

On the other hand, my/father // my father // my father drifts
as you have it, he becomes successively more integrated and
connected to the lines around him. So perhaps it is best as is.
Just silly thoughts to munch on.

Final thought (i promise!)

slowly,
an ancient sturgeon
in the mud

This is fine. I wonder if it needs to say more than

ancient sturgeon
in mud.

Tiger Out. Running far away.

thank you all for reading and commenting - I really appreciate the help! the poem has been posted....

gotpoetry.com/Poems/l_...13019.html

'My father finds his footing in the stream'
Thats all, Don't care what kind of flies you use
I would add one short line, two, three words, to end stanza
I am working off the original, since confounded by all of this advice!