The Earth Tilts

I. Summer

He grabs her hand
So urgent, so sloppy
That two of his fingers
Intertwine with one of hers

Two freckles on his arm surprise her
And she scolds herself for the parts
of him she doesn’t know
His big toe fits in that little spot
Beneath her ankle bone
And it doesn’t quite tickle.

II. Autumn

His hands on her body
belong to a three-year-old
finger-painting
his cat,
smearing blue onto the fur
until the canvas
runs away.

He does not notice
that she has become milk,
the last few drops
at the bottom of the glass
that will not fall into
his mouth.

III. Winter

When he returned to the house
covered in powder
she giggled at the sight of a yeti

He raised a fist to her face
the same way he spit in the snow
abruptly, and with too little wind-up
but still enough to darken
what had been beautiful
moments before

She envied the snow that felt
nothing as it melted away

IV. Spring

The weight of another
blanket on her bed brings
the top sheet closer to forgetting

This morning, her nose ran
in the shower as hot
as the water that streamed down
her face but thicker
and tasting of pennies

Her body never missed the blood.





Okay, so I know a lot of you have seen parts of this other places on the site and critiqued specifics. I am trying to decide it works as a whole piece, or if it looks like I just threw four poems into one. Other feedback is welcome, but that is my focus at this point. Thanks!

I think it works as a whole piece. I recognized it right away.

I'm thinking about that second line -- it's a little confusing in a minor way -- is it his hand or her action that is "so urgent, so sloppy"? You get from context that it's his hand, of course, but the construction seems, well, sloppy to me. I'd tweak that a bit.

I was struck by the "Winter" stanza. In that stanza, the season outside is referenced directly; there's a slightly weaker seasonal reference in the Spring stanza, but the action in the first two could have happened at any time of year. I'm wondering if there's a way to include a seasonal reference in each of those stanzas.

Overall, I like where this is going, and I think it's well on its way. Will back off now for others to chime in.

AmyD, there is much to like here. The first three sections speak to the mother-child relationship, but Spring is obscure to me, and I think needs clarification. The punctuation and first word caps are sporadic and need attending to. Here's a recast for ideas to use or lose:

Summer

He grabs her hand, so urgent,
so sloppy that two of his fingers
intertwine with one of hers.

Two freckles on his arm surprise
her. She scolds herself for the parts
of him she doesn’t know. His big toe
fits in the little spot beneath her ankle
bone, where it doesn’t quite tickle.

Autumn

His hands on her body belong to
a three-year-old finger-painting
his cat, smearing blue onto
the fur until the canvas runs away.

He does not notice she has become
milk, and the last few drops at the bottom
of the glass will not fall into his mouth.

Winter

When he returned to the house,
covered in powder, she giggled
at the sight of a yeti. He raised

a fist to her face the same way
he spit in the snow. Abruptly, with
too little wind-up, but still enough
to darken what had been beautiful
moments before.

She envied the snow, for it felt
nothing as it melted away.

L.

Well, I most assuredly didn't see the relationship as being mother-child. I saw it as a pair of lovers whose relationship devolved into violence. In that context, I saw Spring as being about resignation of a certain kind.

Personally, I am not in favor of full rewrites/recasting here in the Boot Camp, but will wait for others to weigh in on that. Open to it if people are.

Tony, I think when the changes are extensive, a line by line, especially if needed, is better done by contrast and compare, leaving the writer to dope out the rationale. It's more efficient, especially with craft issues. If you don't want critique in that form, I think boot camp will be missing a bet in getting work to a good endpoint.

It's amazing what one reads into a poem; I never saw it your way which is somewhat apparent now.

L.

loisseau wrote:

Tony, I think when the changes are extensive, a line by line, especially if needed, is better done by contrast and compare, leaving the writer to dope out the rationale. It's more efficient, especially with craft issues. If you don't want critique in that form, I think boot camp will be missing a bet in getting work to a good endpoint. It's amazing what one reads into a poem; I never saw it your way which is somewhat apparent now. L.

I get your point, which is why I want other opinions. Personally, full rewrites/recasts just piss me off -- I'm very particular with line breaks and such, and I find that such suggestions usually have missed the point of what I'm trying to do with the poem. My line breaks are frequently as much about breath units, performance emphasis, etc., as they are about page readability, and I try to strike a balance.

Recasting a line or two doesn't bother me. But I want to hear from others about the practice -- this may be just me and what I need in feedback.

I really hate line by line rewrites. If the concerns are mostly technical, then the fixes are pretty easy; a couple of proof-reads take care of the errors. Otherwise, rewrites ignore the fact that critique is supposed to make a person's poetics thrive and become MORE unique; you don't superimpose your own grammatical standards and call it a "rewrite" by any degree.

Of course, it could be much worse: the above rewriter COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT OF THE POEM, and when a section didn't fit his hypothesis of a "mother-child" relationship, rather than change his concept of the piece, he omitted it completely. That's sloppy, lazy rewriting which does very little for the author.

If concerns are technical, a couple of proof reads will correct the errors!!!?Alvin, have you been reading any pieces on this site? Craft and technical errors are rampant; people either don't know how, or are too excited to get their stuff on line to bring it in it's best form. Rewrites as I see, are shorthand for a good line by line, making the poem readable without stumbling over errors that a little thought will cure. Making a piece more unique is the writer's province.

As for missing the point here; stuff happens. It's pre-concieved notion that caused it, and I thought "Spring " was obscure, and I told her so. Not lazy or sloppy; perhaps you missed the point of my response.

L.

There are so many things you completely skip by only focusing on syntax and punctuation that you haven't even begun to touch on. That's what is lazy.

i think the L's rewrite changed the meaning of the piece for me. i saw the relationship aspect in the original clearly. i am guilty of doing total rewrites but its always with the approval of the poet (via PM's and such).

i think it becomes a touchy subject when a poet has already developed style and voice to do a total rewrite of their work. in turn its hard to rewrite another persons poem without branding it with your own style ( L. that rewrite looked like one of your pieces man). all in all i'm diggin this forum

Alvin, we may be closer than we think. I'm not saying syntax and punctuation are the end-all of a critique. Ideas brought forth with new phrase, lines that make you think, evoke emotion or give rise an epiphany are what we all look for. But that comes from the writer, not the critiquer,IMO. My recasts often read and have my voice and look. I only put out the recasts to provoke new personal ways for the poet to rework their writing.

As brownbwi pointed out, poets get touchy on rewrites. I say that's what is needed sometimes, and if so, grin and bear it; and hopefully one or two ideas will happen as a result.

L.

Personally, when I do get around to posting a piece here (current work is not for public feedback as I'm writing pieces set to music for a new Duende CD), I don't want a rewrite.

I'm good with rewrites.

L.

Tony wrote:

Personally, when I do get around to posting a piece here (current work is not for public feedback as I'm writing pieces set to music for a new Duende CD), I don't want a rewrite.

I have to agree with Tony. I am looking at the rewrite of my poem, and it doesn't really help me much. Yes, I was sloppy about some of my capitalization, yes, you should all yell at me, and yes, I will fix that. But beyond that, I have no idea what the rewrite is trying to tell me at all.

autumn has me confused, even though there is something so appealing about the write, but the whole cat thing is lost on me. i can't grasp what it wants me to see about this couple, because i do see it as a couple.

it doesn't feel like four poems pasted together, but rather two poems pasted together.

like tony i too wanted a little more reference to the season. i thought winter and spring had them but not the other two.

S2 has me intrigued with the toe thing. i keep wondering about the tickle, etc. that is good btw, it kept me reading and left an image in my mind. i also really liked the freckle reference.

i loved "spring".

so i guess the place that i would work most is the first stanza, not clear on who is urgent or sloppy, and autumn, just because i can't quite get the connect with the rest of the piece. to me it seems to be sitting there by itself.

(and for those that would like to critique my critiquing please do it via PM)

You mean it didn't provoke you in "new personal ways?" Shocking!

Though I've gone over many of the following comments in backchannel with Amy, I'll still post them here. Many of my comments deal with the macro elements.

There isn't enough substance. This is pretty hard to get around but easy to solve. You're trying to tell a story through snapshots, as if the reader is given four individual photos and has to understand the composite image. When you add in a progression in time as a variable, your images need to be so tightly knit that you can imply change and action without blurting it out. So far, the story hints at a complex relationship, but the reader is never fully let in on the secret. There's no final bite. You need a delicious payoff. This is probably a result of you pasting four individual section together rather than building this poem from scratch -- not only are there minor stylistic differences from piece to piece, but the story arc is not complete.

I'd go back, think about what the detailed story is behind the poem, and then find the four most poignant images or moments that show the relationship (and fit the seasonal metaphor), and then reintroduce them. You've got good images here that don't need to be scrapped, but they don't fit. Some can be saved for later drafts, but others might need to be fit into another poem completely. Kill your babies. Then recycle them.

While the images are creative, they do not form complete metaphors. This is a common mistake we all make, and it's hard to notice. I've talked to you before about the line: "It reverberated under his skin like a tattoo of sound,"

Ooouu, the reader thinks. That sounds coooool. But before you start drooling, try to picture that image. I'll wait. ... ... ... Got it? Probably not, right? The problem is that sound can't be an image, and while you hope the reader can feign synthesthia, the metaphor fails on an intellectual level, despite being aurally pleasing.

You occasionally fall into that same trap in other poems, but it's also borderline in this one:

"but still enough to darken
what had been beautiful
moments before"

While you can certainly attach an object to "what had been beautiful," such as a face, the current phrasing of the line suggests more than an individual object, but an entire scene darkening. This implies a light which is probably not present in the poem so far -- and if you don't have a light, you have nothing to darken. You need to set up this metaphor better, by showing a contrasting scene earlier in the poem to show the "fall." Also, the line is pretty much a blatant tell, and should be scrapped on those grounds alone.

Sloppy is an imprecise word choice for the image that follows. I like how two fingers grasp one, that's pretty cool. But you need to show the significance of that action. Right now, I can only guess that it represents an imbalance of relationships, but sloppy doesn't agree with that hypothesis, while urgent does. Because two words have contradicting agreements on the image, I think something needs to be tweaked, though I'd like to hear more on your image selection. Also, would you consider the reverse of "two of HER fingers intertwine one of his?"

Why does the canvas run away? It's a fun image, but it lacks significance without more. Also, I think you can omit "he does not notice that."


"The weight of another
blanket on her bed brings
the top sheet closer to forgetting"

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out what this means. Anyone have thoughts beyond the most literal interpretation?

The last stanzas are good, and you're showing a greater attention to line breaks. I do have one suggestion:

This morning, her nose ran
in the shower as hot
as the water that streamed
down her face but thicker
and tasting of pennies

I disagree with the others about having seasonal references. That's a bit obvious and predictable.

The seasonal references don't need to be especially overt, but some connection to the seasonal section titles seems appropriate to me.

Also: if someone uses "Tattoo" as a sound reference, I immediately think of a military drum rhythm which is called a "tattoo." It's a bit obscure, but not so odd as to be unheard of. If the poem contained a reference to a "tattoo reverberating" I'd get it immediately. (Maybe not a reference to a "Tattoo" of sound, though; that seems to be overkill to me.)

Here's my two cents.
" The Earth Tilts

I. Summer

He grabs her hand "
So urgent, so sloppy"
( why sloppy ? confusing, could almost be read as sexual )
" That two of his fingers
Intertwine with one of hers

Two freckles on his arm surprise her
And she scolds herself for the parts
of him she doesn’t know
His big toe fits in that little spot
Beneath her ankle bone
And it doesn’t quite tickle.

II. Autumn "

" His hands on her body
belong to a three-year-old "
( this might be what is confusing the reviews thus far. )
" finger-painting
his cat,
smearing blue onto the fur
until the canvas
runs away. "
( cool visual all the same )

" He does not notice "
" that she has become milk, "
( milk of human kindness ? pregnant ? )
" the last few drops
at the bottom of the glass
that will not fall into
his mouth.

III. Winter

When he returned to the house
covered in powder
she giggled at the sight of a yeti

He raised a fist to her face
the same way he spit in the snow
abruptly, and with too little wind-up
but still enough to darken
what had been beautiful
moments before "
( domestic violence or the threat of ? )
" She envied the snow that felt
nothing as it melted away "
( ok we have the exterior to this drama outside in this section )
" IV. Spring

The weight of another
blanket on her bed brings
the top sheet closer to forgetting

This morning, her nose ran
in the shower as hot
as the water that streamed down
her face but thicker
and tasting of pennies

Her body never missed the blood. "
( crying and dieing in the shower ? )

I get a little confused, there are some great metaphors and images but would as well like to see the other seasons exterior views brought in. You did so beautifully with the snow. Why not the leaves turning the color of flames before the big frost ? Or the bulbs screaming towards the surface of gardens ? Or losing oneself in a daydream on fresh mowed grass with linen hanging on a clothes line ?

My 2 c. on rewrites:

Should only be allowed in the Rewrite Workshop without asking for permission.
The rest of the place, I think we should ask for permission first.


On the poem, I really like a couple of lines:

Two freckles on his arm surprise her
And she scolds herself for the parts
of him she doesn’t know

She envied the snow that felt
nothing as it melted away


Cheers!

Agreed on rewrites. I've amended the relevant Sticky.

First, I'd want to say that in general, I like what this piece is trying to do. I have not seen any of this elsewhere... but I do feel it can work together as one piece.

To me, this read immediately as a relationship between adults. "Sloppy" seems an especially awkward choice, perhaps clumsy? By my read, the idea is that the young man is not a very practiced lover. Is there a better way to show that? For me, the first stanza of part I. could almost be completely done away with. Starting at the two freckles brings us right into an intimate moment where he seems vulnerable.
I liked the toe/ankle bone connection, that to me was a great description of the aftermath of making love... tangled up together. That whole stanza works well. Adroit inference of what "she doesn't know."

The Autumn segment is problematic. Though the visual of the blue painted cat running away is certainly evocative, I wonder if the way it is presented leads to some confusion about what's really going on.
By my read, what's going on is another sexual encounter, where his clumsy, grasping, proprietary gropings are getting to the point where she wants to make like a blue cat and scramble out from under his hands.
Where is he in this? Seems like he blanks out, has gone inside himself so that only the childlike primitive hungry part is evident... not like being made love to... more like being consumed.
I like the reference to the last of the milk in a glass. For me, that part speaks to the part of her which becomes inaccessible to his devouring touch.
The milk stanza works, the blue paint stanza is confusing. Perhaps you might consider using a simile rather than such a direct metaphor... after all... the hands do not belong to a three year old. They belong to a man who in some ways is as regressed as to behave like a three year old.

The winter segment has made too rapid a transition from showing a man who is self-centered and immature to one who'd punch his partner in the face with no real provocation. Though I see you are making a statement about "abruptness", I imagine the actual transition would be more subtle in the beginning... so maybe you don't want to punch the reader in the face with it. Maybe you want to just make the connection that we have violence here.
Your use of "too little windup" tells me this is not a full blown knock out punch. It doesn't put her off... it just darkens her perspective. A bit like being kicked with feet of clay. What if you had him give her the back of his hand, instead? Still a violent interjection... but one from which a reader might plausibly imagine she recovers enough to stick around for all the other things that follow. I think you want to lead into the idea of the insidiousness of the process by which a woman submits to being battered. The whole winter segment might be reworked to greater efficacy, and I think you've got in in you.

The Spring segment is my favorite, and makes for a strong closing. I like the blanket weight bit... makes me think of something bruised and fragile, where sleep is a respite.
Clearly things have devolved to a point where the woman is reduced to something like survival mode.
That she rises up in the morning to clean herself is a hopeful event... but one in which the reader is by no means secure in what will be the final resolution. The woman is at a place where she must finally act on her own behalf, or be lost. We can hope her next step will be out the door... but we've all seen these sad progressions too many times not to realize it may be too late.
For me, the ambiguity of the resolution is what makes this piece take on a haunting quality, and that is one which I think works toward the potential strength of this piece as a whole.

I am looking forward to seeing this revised.


All of that said... I am puzzled by some of the comments in this thread. First of all... I read this poem several times, and never saw a reference to a tattoo, of sound or otherwise. Nor do I see where the poet might have edited such a reference out of the original posting.
If you are bringing in something from another piece, I'd submit that it isn't very helpful in the context of a critique on this particular poem. Any way in which it might be applicable is lost here.

Also, though Mr. Lau finally managed to make some comments directly related to the poem which should be the focus of this thread, I found it intrusive and disrespectful that his first two posts are made for the purpose of attacking another commenter and not for his own critique. Even when he did make comments on the piece, he couldn't resist opening his post with yet another personal dig to someone else. The fact that Alvin actually manages to have some decent things to say about the piece makes it more repehensible that he'd waste so much of his (and our) energy on the type of pettiness with which his participation in these forums has been dogged since I've been here. I really don't understand why that happens without a mention from the moderator, when less egregious transgressions have been dealt with more harshly.

In honesty, I have hesitated to participate in this forum specifically because to my view, the tough rules about what is and is not tolerated seem to be inconsistently applied. I knew that I couldn't post here without making some reference to it... and the fact that it seems necessary to do so is tiresome. Yeah... I know this forum is something of a new concept at GP... and that it is still in the stages of becoming what it's going to be. So I'll reserve my final judgment and see whether I find my participation here to be helpful to my personal growth as a poet, as well as helpful (if possible) to others. I can tell you that at this point, it really looks like it could go either way.

Perhaps Tony needs to amend a sticky to include a suggestion that anyone who comments needs to speak first to the piece.

Amy, please forgive the editorializing in your thread. I certainly hope you will offer us the opportunity to view any revisions you decide to make on your poem. I enjoyed the opportunity to read it.

All I'm going to say is this: Not everything that happens related to this forum happens publicly in the forum.

In addition, some of what Alvin had to say about the commentary was valuable in terms of describing an important point about commentary in general. I let it stand for that reason. If the tone was troubling, I'm sorry. I erred (if I erred) on the side of content over tone, hoping folks would consider the source.

What I don't see is why this is about people. This isn't about me, or loisseau, or anyone in particular. It's about commentary and its nature. We didn't debate who was morally superior or more intelligent, we argued over the nature of prosody and critical theory. I think Loisseau's method hurts beginners more than helps them and vocalized it.

Alvin, you made it about people. Your first response in this thread is to critique a critique, call someone else sloppy and lazy... and then you offer this snide remark:

AlvinLau wrote:

You mean it didn't provoke you in "new personal ways?" Shocking!

which really can't be interpreted in any way other than a personal dig. Was that necessary? I think not.

I feel that tone is important, and if you modulate yours a bit you'll stand a better chance of garnering the respect of your peers rather than their rancor.

It is possible to give deeply thoughtful responses that convey harsh truths, while still choosing respectful means of communication. Perhaps you should see whether you are able to rise to that challenge.
If you are truly concerned about what hurts beginners more than helps them, you will give attention to your tone your best effort.

I don't know why people think I care about "garnering the respect of your peers."

It's a challenge I don't need to rise to.

Again, there's nothing wrong with critiquing a critique. That kind of discussion is necessary.

As for helping beginners, it's a matter of opinion. I think an extremely harsh tone helps beginners but either forcing them to improve or quit. I don't believe everyone is a writer or is capable of becoming one, and that my largely negative voice is a balancing act. Sure, you get more writers with the always encouraging tone, but you get better ones who come from a -- well -- boot camp.